At 4/26/17 05:24 AM, DaisyMarino wrote: The way I can see it, it seems everyone is rooting for Macron. But let see in the final round on May 7. France is not ready for a woman as a leader, just adding my $2 cents here.

A different woman would even do.

well we're gonna have to wait, I would be skeptical, La Penn could win it remember the establishment and the media said Trump and Brexit weren't going to be a thing and they were sorely wrong, and by the looks of the voting map and the margin of separation now that is Macaroni and La Penn.

At 4/26/17 01:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: well we're gonna have to wait, I would be skeptical, La Penn could win it remember the establishment and the media said Trump and Brexit weren't going to be a thing and they were sorely wrong, and by the looks of the voting map and the margin of separation now that is Macaroni and La Penn.

Yeah, believe it or not the independent (liberal) side of media is pretty much saying what you are here, word for word. It's pretty concerning, actually.

At 4/26/17 02:11 PM, Gario wrote: Yeah, believe it or not the independent (liberal) side of media is pretty much saying what you are here, word for word. It's pretty concerning, actually.

the other thing is if you are gonna say things like that (saying no to brexit or voting trump) people are going to resent it and cause them to do the complete opposite because there's a movement for it because they're sick of the status quo.

but what the fuck do I know right? I'm in IT and I just do politics for fun.

A sick, twisted part of me wants Marine Le Pen to win just so I can see the carnage that would ensue: France's exit from NATO, the revival of the French franc, and the small comfort that it's not just Americans who elect nutjobs for President.

But yeah, I'm praying for a Macron victory. I mean, it's inevitable, right? There's no way that in a democratic country like France a far-right wing candidate with ties to Russia could lose to a principled, experienced left-centrist whose victory most opinion polls virtually guarantee.

If I had to bet, I'd still bet on Macron. I will definitely pray for him, too.

Macrons emails got leaked.

At 5/6/17 09:08 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Macrons emails got leaked.

And there was nothing in them, because he's a pretty boring guy.

Would these leaks have really affected the outcome in any way, even if there were bombshells in them? My guess, given the two-day blackout and the fact that it's on the eve of the election, is no.

It seemed to have been done out of desperation, given how Macron has such a commanding lead against Le Pen, and there are only a day or two left until the election.. There was also a lot of out-right fake stuff dumped alongside the hacked material, meant to cause confusion, and intentionally mislead, french voters. It may lead to Macron to lose a few points, but it doesn't seem likely it will change the outcome any. Still, given how close Le Pen was to Putin, and Macron's criticism of Russia, it's a good bet that this was done by Russian hackers - the same who hacked the Democrats, and then released all the docs to the public. Russia certainly has gotten bold on this, and it's likely they will continue doing it, until something is done about them. Until then, Russia will continue doing it, feeling they can get away with it, and having a tangible effect on the outcomes of foreign election in their favor.

they're trying to block 4Chan as well thinking if they can block the Meme magicians no meme magic will go to a certain candidate.

praise Kek!

At 5/6/17 04:05 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: they're trying to block 4Chan as well thinking if they can block the Meme magicians no meme magic will go to a certain candidate.

praise Kek!

I think everyone is trying to block the chaotic site, which operate high on emotion, low on logic, and the belief that the world revolves around them, while fighting everyone they don't like from the safety of their basement at home, and not really giving a damn about the welfare of society or others.

And other media sites were asked not to published the hacked/fake docs, by the way. But, of course, France is not like Russia, with state run media sites, and any opposing views being shut down, or quieted by other means. I'm sure 4chan has a nice home there, as long they stay on Putin's good side.

At 5/6/17 05:02 PM, EdyKel wrote:

I'm still waiting for concrete proof besides conjecture and circumstantial evidence with the Russia thing. its about as real as the whole Hilary email thing.

At 5/6/17 04:44 PM, lapis wrote:

At 5/6/17 04:05 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: they're trying to block 4Chan as well

No? Seems to be just a rumour.

Would be pretty Erdogan-esque if they went that far.

ahh well my bad I saw it on FB and quickly went to 4 chan when I first saw that. I guess I should have VPNed into france just to give it the ol' check.

Google has the graph up I'm giddy.

At 5/7/17 12:48 PM, Gutnacht wrote: Aaaaand Le Pen is losing. Europe is fucked you guys.

source? as of right now we got nothing due to the black out.

At 5/7/17 12:48 PM, Gutnacht wrote: Aaaaand Le Pen is losing. Europe is fucked you guys.

I don't get it. How is Europe fucked if the pro-Europe guy wins?

At 5/7/17 12:55 PM, DamnedByFate wrote:

At 5/7/17 12:48 PM, Gutnacht wrote: Aaaaand Le Pen is losing. Europe is fucked you guys.

I don't get it. How is Europe fucked if the pro-Europe guy wins?

besides kowtowing the whole continent down with that bitch Merkel and adding layers of unnecessary layers of bureaucratic bullshit that's the EU?

I mean what could go wrong?

At 5/7/17 12:55 PM, DamnedByFate wrote:

At 5/7/17 12:48 PM, Gutnacht wrote: Aaaaand Le Pen is losing. Europe is fucked you guys.

I don't get it. How is Europe fucked if the pro-Europe guy wins?

Same people that thought America was fucked if Trump lost. It's just their point of view.

Granted, the French are going to suffer in different ways if either candidate wins (Macron is a super Neo-Liberal, which carries all sorts of economic positions that are rubbish), but it'd be much worse for everyone around it if Le Pen wins due to her hyper isolationist policies and nationalistic positions.

google says Macron won, so it looks like France is being ran by a Rothchild banker.

At 5/7/17 02:04 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: google says Macron won, so it looks like France is being ran by a Rothchild banker.

Yep he won, 65% vs 35%.
I guess we're okay but still, 35% from a nationalist party breaks my heart.

At 5/7/17 02:14 PM, MysteriousPresence wrote:
Yep he won, 65% vs 35%.
I guess we're okay but still, 35% from a nationalist party breaks my heart.

Macron wasn't a good choice, either. His economic policies affect the poor and working class negatively (breaking the 35hr work week limit, for example, and calling it people's "right to work" sounds like a classic conservative play), so I could EASILY see people voting to not get screwed by his economic policies.

But yeah, I'm going to say the people who voted for her in the first round had plenty of options to support that weren't formerly a front for neo-nazis, so for the ~22% that supported her in the first round, shame on them.

At 5/7/17 10:20 PM, RightTime wrote:
Also, for all you guys getting all worked up about France being doomed or saved because your chosen candidate won or lost you need to get a hold of yourselves. France is a republic and it takes a long time for things to change. Also, I'm pretty sure that none of you are French citizens, so despite the rhetoric the actual effects of this election on any of us will be pretty minor.

A push to leave the EU would've impacted the entire civilized world, actually. Normally I'd agree, but that's not a small thing to have hinging on that election.

People REALLY don't understand what they're talking about in this thread huh? I mean shiiiit.

France's President is not like America's President. The Fifth Republic is a hybrid to try and defeat the pull of party politics (though it's been a de facto two party system for awhile). Macron won, goody for him, but he's got some problems. One, he really doesn't have a party apparatus. En Marche is only about a year old, if that, and while he promises to field candidates in every district, he may not end up with a governmental majority. This results in what is called "cohabitation" and it could end with him being a "do nothing" President because the PM could wind up being the actual power. It's happened a few times before.

This also is where the hacks could be damaging to him. Macron has claimed that while real documents were stolen, fakes were also put in as well. Depending on what's uncovered with the black out listed, this could hurt his ability to get sympathetic candidates, and his own party elected. This is still a developing story no doubt, and people declaring doom for their side are just proving how little informed they are.

But this also goes to something else I'm seeing written about that I'm beginning to increasingly agree with. I don't think we are seeing the makings of a far right revolution like it may have looked with Brexit and Trump. I think what we are seeing and France is the proof is that we're seeing a CENTRIST and traditional politics implosion. That globalization and other ideas that while leading to wonderful outcomes for some have left more ordinary and low skilled, less intellectual folks behind and now their pissed and listening to people who are promising them change and targets for their rage. This is of course what's fueling populists and nationalism in many cases. But France shows us that someone on the left can co-opt these ideas and play themselves as the outsider for success as well. This isn't about ideology, not really, something I suspected myself with the slim Trump victory in the States here. It's about people feeling like the establishment has failed them and now they're voting to try and sunset it and create a new way forward. Whatever that they mean to the electorate in question.

At 5/7/17 10:40 PM, Gario wrote: A push to leave the EU would've impacted the entire civilized world, actually. Normally I'd agree, but that's not a small thing to have hinging on that election.

If the EU loses France it might as well dissolve entirely. And while I do recognize it has its flaws, the right's "solution" is by far not the only one.

At 5/7/17 02:07 PM, lapis wrote: Charles Martel

Was there somebody else by that name that I don't know of, or are you seriously trying to bring up a guy who won a battle in the 8th century in a discussion about contemporary EU politics?

Before everyone claims that the the EU is saved after Macron, along with Austria and the Netherlands voting against the nationalist candidates, the hard right is still energized even after those losses in ways that they weren't before, or at the very least created a power voting bloc within those respective countries. For all the wonders of globalization, those lost jobs and in their view, mass arrival of foreigners who refuse to adapt to their culture and way of doing things are still real threats.

Ultimately, Brexit and the election of Trump has made the rest of Western Europe a little bit more gunshy on nationalistic/alt-right candidates for leadership, but defenders of the EU shouldn't be breathing a sigh of relief just yet, right-wing populism is still around and in greater numbers than in the past. Also, I do feel that at least some of them who vote for folks like Le Pen, Wilders and others aren't hardcore bigots or jingoists, but simply desperate people who they feel that the establishment (particularly the left-wing) has passed them by, which is something that the established parties should start to address. I believe I said this time and time again, but it bears repeating just in case anyone forgets.

At 5/6/17 05:14 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 5/6/17 05:02 PM, EdyKel wrote:

I'm still waiting for concrete proof besides conjecture and circumstantial evidence with the Russia thing. its about as real as the whole Hilary email thing.

I use to argue a lot with climate deniers. They would always use the same argument that you are using right now: The need for absolute proof - while also, often, claiming they knew what truth is, and argued for the existence of god. Science doesn't seek absolute truth, which is philosophical in nature, but seeks to come as close to it as it can, based on the analysis of data and facts through observation, and then a a collective of experts have to come to a consensus on it, not to indicate that it's true, but how likely it is true. Then you got the parasites that feed off the leftover of uncertainty, who don't seek knowledge, but to sow doubt towards the established consensus, for ideological purposes, be it religious, or political, by concentrating on undermining the objectiveness of the experts who back it, with vast conspiracy theories, rather than coming up with a plausible, alternative, theory to it.

I gave you an answer. I can't help if you don't want to accept the consensus among our intelligence community for who did it. I can point to other countries, who were also hacked, who's intelligence communities are also pointing their finger at Russia, along with other nonsense they do. Since you don't want to accept it, I can only assume you have some conspiracy theory against it, which is more likely driven by your ideology than anything else. The other thing people like you fail to to see when you use an argument for absolute proof is that it works both ways. If you don't have it yourself, to support your own position, and have even weaker evidence to contradict an established view, then, obviously, you are more at fault for lack of proof.