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>> 9. "The Fox and the Mirrior"

Damn, I'm really disappointed that this submission didn't do better, it definitely deserver one of the top 5 places.

Newgrounds SIM was okay, but got boring and I couldn't really be bothered with it
Bunnykill was fun and cool, but nothing too original
RAB 13 was a good entry in the series, but IMO there's only so much toilet humour you can get away with, it's declining I think overall.
Valhalla knights was sweet, definitely deserved a place and I look forward to more on that one!
DucktaleZ3 was funny, but ultimately far too basic and not that funny, it dragged on at parts.

At 6/9/05 08:45 PM, gfoxcook wrote:

At 6/7/05 03:12 PM, Back_Door_Baron wrote: I guess I was just so dazzled by the beauty and artistry of the N.W. that I let it blind me to the truth. You need more action or humor if you want to win an award here on Newgrounds. A silent piece (or mostly silent) that is all about the stunning visuals has no place getting an award, apparently. With the exception of The Fox and the Mirror (I'm not sure how that piece placed better) all the flashes that placed higher then Nim's had this to one degree or another.

I'm really disappointed, I don't think anyone can argue that it and Gooberstory were the most visually stunning animations released that month. It blows everything else away. Even VH cannot compare. Although obviously many of you voters liked other movies better, how can you not justify reserving at least one spot on your list for at least Nim's Wintertale? Just for the sheer quality that went into it.

Did you, Back_Door_Baron (and JetNinjin and ScrunchMuppet), ever think that JUST MAYBE... just maybe other voters for these monthly contests aren't voting strictly for the "most visually stunning animations"? The ones that [graphically] "blow everything else away"?? Did it ever occur to you that things like humour, action, drama, violence, romance, plot, dialogue, interactivity, and MANY OTHER FACETS of a flash appeal to different people differently?

This... this is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. Oh wait, I yes I do. Back Door Baron? Who the heck is he? I wrote this. I mean really... How hard is it to quote a person properly?

As for the rest, did you actually read what I said? I don't appreciate having that post labeled as hate, by the way. Although, I'll admit I was somewhat unfair when I talked about DucktalesZ (which you didn't mention this time around but might later so I'll cover myself). It's actually a good flash I just don't agree with it's high rating.

Jeez, do I really need to re-explain myself? I thought I was clear when I wrote it. I will try ONE more time as I think I made a good point and am willing to elaborate as it may make others think about it. I will then ignore you if you can't be bothered to reply to me sensibly. Just like I am doing with that guy that responded to my DTZ rant. Ba, I work hard on my posts, it's really a downer to have the first person to reply to me write so nonsensically and now the second gives me this.

Right off the bat, I said that it seems that you need more action or humor if you want to win an award here on Newgrounds. I mean, seriously. Don't tell me that people like things such as action or humor if I have already said so. It makes your statement redundant. Besides, I DO have a pretty good idea what people are into. I wrote a lengthy and, I think, well informed post when the nominations were announced (why don't you check it out?) on who would win. I correctly picked NG Sim and Bunnykill 3 Pt1 to win awards for various reasons that are listed there so I won't waste time repeating them.

I also knew that despite it's graphical excellence that Gooberstory would not be chosen as a top five. Simply to abstract and also don't think an author can win 2 monthly awards in one month. Gotta spread the love (cash) around, lol. I thought Valhalla Knights might but between that and Nim's Tale I thought Nim was more likely to win. As I had read people complaining about VK more in reviews.

Obviously, I was wrong. Now, I am aware that people like other types of movies better. I was simply stating that all of you that vote are Newground veterans. Surely, you can recognize a piece that is truly exceptional. It was by a first time artist. I only asked if there can be no thought given to an animation that is truly exceptional even if it's not exactly to your taste? Were I voting I would have picked Gooberstory for fifth place. NOT because I liked it so much (I didn't) but just because the quality, the workmanship, the sheer beauty of it... I just could not, NOT vote for it. I knew in my heart it had more work put into it then anything else and it was a new author to the community. The Bunnykill series has already won once as has the animator that did VK. Plus Nim's Tale, it was actually good as a story. It's not just some abstract art, it was excellent in many ways that mattered.

All I asked is can we not look beyond what we like the MOST personally and look at something that we also think is very good as well (though obviously still not as interesting to you as your personal favorites) and say something like:
"While this is not exactly my style, this new author (that has won nothing) has made something so good it deserves something for the work"?

I'm not asking you to vote on the Gooberstories (which you may find weird and totally uninteresting no matter how well done, mass appeal is important too. Don't ever think it's not) but the Nim's Tales that you probably like and realize are made well even if your something of a fanboy for other works that can be picked.

Just some things to think about. Peace out.

lol they think with loads of experience point, they are cool.
Anyway NG community sucks. I just come here to check out some cool movies.

I am sorry for those artists who didn't win though they deserve it. If some idiots keep winning monthly prize, this will simply discourge the talented artists.

I have a life sorry ppl. Posting a long load wont' make u smarter.

I think they should seperate games and movies. I'd be in the top 5!

At 6/11/05 05:01 AM, TomaO2 wrote: This... this is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. Oh wait, I yes I do. Back Door Baron? Who the heck is he? I wrote this. I mean really... How hard is it to quote a person properly?

Not very. I've probably quoted around 30,000 posts in the past 2.5 years (if not more). And about 29,950 of those times, I've done it correctly. No one's perfect.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=283680&page=2

Back_Door_Baron Posted: 6/7/05 03:12 PM
TomaO2 Posted: 6/7/05 03:19 PM

When I was juggling quotes from page 2 in notepad to try and multi-quote reply to everyone, I somehow snipped out the quoteblock of BDB's post BUT NOT THE "At blahblah, ____ wrote:" attribution line, and it ended up above yours and I didn't notice the error.

Just a simple error, nothing to freak out about. Sorry. O_o

As for the rest, did you actually read what I said?

Um... no, I didn't. I was just replying to it while guessing what you had said. That's my style. #;-}>

I don't appreciate having that post labeled as hate, by the way.

(sigh) ... my all-caps, obviously-tongue-in-cheek line that started off my reply to you AND SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE... was not meant to be taken seriously.

Although, I'll admit I was somewhat unfair when I talked about DucktalesZ (which you didn't mention this time around but might later so I'll cover myself). It's actually a good flash I just don't agree with it's high rating.

You said you loathed it, though... why would you loathe a good flash? Anyway... if you don't appreciate it's score, then vote what you think it deserves (2, 3, whatever) in the portal every single day. You will eventually have an effect.

But please don't complain about its placement on the monthly vote ranks. The people had a vote, they used it, you disagree. We all move on. Not everyone is going to agree with all 5 picks each month.

Jeez, do I really need to re-explain myself? I thought I was clear when I wrote it. I will try ONE more time as I think I made a good point and am willing to elaborate as it may make others think about it. I will then ignore you if you can't be bothered to reply to me sensibly. Just like I am doing with that guy that responded to my DTZ rant. Ba, I work hard on my posts, it's really a downer to have the first person to reply to me write so nonsensically and now the second gives me this.

You made a point, and you made it coherently and intelligently. I just happen to disagree with it. And what exactly is the "this" I've given you? I work hard on my posts (and my reviews), too, yanno. A large portion (larger than that of most posters, certainly) of my posts reach or nearly reach the 6500 character limit. I type fast, but it still requires time, effort, attention, etc. etc... so I respect the care you give your own posts, but please don't disrespect me by implying I couldn't possibly understand that or possibly be anything like you in that regard. It's insulting, man.

Right off the bat, I said that it seems that you need more action or humor if you want to win an award here on Newgrounds. I mean, seriously.

First of all, I disagree with you. There's plenty of flash without action or humour that gets recognised as greatness and ends up high on the top 50 for a time. Take Galapagos, for example. For much of the first half of 2003, that movie was near the top of the top 50. It was a simple music video with three or four songs showing the cruelty and beauty of animals and nature in general. If it had been submitted in the past few months (or if there had been monthly awards in 2003), I believe it would have won a top 5 slot.

Don't tell me that people like things such as action or humor if I have already said so. It makes your statement redundant.

There was more to my statement than regurgitating what you had said, I was trying to say that wide variety of genres and types of flash movies and games do well on NG, and it just so happens that a couple of those were the ones you were complaining about being the ONLY ones that do well on NG.

I correctly picked NG Sim and Bunnykill 3 Pt1 to win awards

I was almost certain both of them would win spots in the top 5 as well. But I don't see what that has to do with the rest of this.

All I asked is can we not look beyond what we like the MOST personally and look at something that we also think is very good as well (though obviously still not as interesting to you as your personal favorites) and say something like:
"While this is not exactly my style, this new author (that has won nothing) has made something so good it deserves something for the work"?

Asking people to vote based on objective standards... to vote for artistic films, IOW... instead of simply entertaining movies... is unrealistic. Some people might try, most won't even bother. And many of those who do try will fail to do so completely successfully.

It's just not going to work.

Tom has already laid out SOME guidelines, and people do seem to be following them to a certain extent (don't vote for all-video-clip entries or those overly-featuring only commercial music)... let's take what we can get, eh? Baby steps.

I'm not asking you to vote on the Gooberstories (which you may find weird and totally uninteresting no matter how well done, mass appeal is important too. Don't ever think it's not) but the Nim's Tales that you probably like and realize are made well even if your something of a fanboy for other works that can be picked.

Screw mass appeal. Of course it's important (if you're trying to predict the winners in advance, as you seem to enjoy/feel compelled to do). But I don't vote based on what will win, I vote based on what I WANT to win.

I haven't seen Gooberstories, actually. But you know what? I'll check it out soon. I'm always open to any flash. That's why I sit on the portal and watch flashes and b/p a shitload. I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy a wide range of movies and games. At least, whatever this 7.5 year old computer can handle on low quality. #;-}>

Gratz to the winners! WOW if i knew i could get all that stuff for something like that i would have listened in school!

I quote you with this the truth hurts and the good makes you happy but all of this stuff will make your life crappy!

RAB WILL LIVE ON FOREVER

woot

You know, I still just can't help but feel your not really thinking about the important parts of what I am saying. Just looking to find quick points to target me on. I really take exception to your act, pretending like your the one that was insulted, though.

:And what exactly is the "this" I've given you? I work hard on my posts (and my reviews), too, yanno. A large portion (larger than that of most posters, certainly) of my posts reach or nearly reach the 6500 character limit. I type fast, but it still requires time, effort, attention, etc. etc... so I respect the care you give your own posts, but please don't disrespect me by implying I couldn't possibly understand that or possibly be anything like you in that regard. It's insulting, man.

But you didn't respect the care I made in my post. Don't pretend you did. That's what "THIS" is.

You replied in such a dismissive way. You mentioned NOTHING about it having made any kind of a point whatsoever. It would have been really nice if you had but instead you just lumped it in what a bunch of half thought out posts and essentially trashed it, and you spent more time trashing my words then the others. Yes, that WAS insulting and disrespectful... to ME and it was far more so then my post was to you.

Since you seem utterly at a loss as to how I could feel this way, perhaps I should bring every point to the fore. You seem to like completely excessive nitpicking.

:SO MUCH HATE IN THIS TOPIC, eh? Let's fan the flames:

First off, you said you wanted to 'fan the flames' and labeled the posts as hate. You say now that this is OBVIOUSLY tongue in cheek. I don't see how I am expected to know what is meant jokingly and what is serious. Perhaps, you can remember not everyone has the same since of humor as you have and when your not dealing with friends, keep things more diplomatic or at least say 'joking' in brackets.

:At 6/7/05 03:12 PM, Back_Door_Baron wrote:

Then you got my name wrong. Even if it was a mistake you surely must be able to appreciate how that makes a person feel dismissed (and do not tell me not to 'freak out', you probably meant it as another 'joke' but it's not coming across that way). Then you simply repeat what I have already said. Which really DOES make it sound like you are not properly reading what I wrote.

:Did you, Back_Door_Baron (and JetNinjin and ScrunchMuppet), ever think that JUST MAYBE... just maybe other voters for these monthly contests aren't voting strictly for the "most visually stunning animations"? The ones that [graphically] "blow everything else away"?? Did it ever occur to you that things like humour, action, drama, violence, romance, plot, dialogue, interactivity, and MANY OTHER FACETS of a flash appeal to different people differently?

Um... no, I didn't. I only consider the graphics. That's my style. #;-}>

:#1) a very fun and replayable game (with great graphics, IMO, so perhaps you'd agree with this pick, if not the other four)
#2) a hilarious Marc M flash with a song about a dragon's penis (which to you must be shit, since it isn't "visually stunning")
#3) a hilarious flash about a burglar with Tourette's Syndrome (not very good graphics either, but they were better than the dragon penis flash's)
#4) a sweet and funny visual story/music video about a girl who meets a robot and goes to school with it
#5) a kick ass shooter game with not the best graphics but FUN GAMEPLAY

How do you think I liked it when you go over your picks and decide how much I'd like each by the graphics that are in it? You say I'm insulting??? You beat it over and over again, graphics are not important. Well, that was the conclusion I came to as well. Like I said, TOTALLY REDUNDANT!

:All the idiots lecturing people for not voting for what THEY PERSONALLY LIKED need to get over themselves.

You cap it off by calling me and other posters idiots. More of that humor of yours, I guess. I have a few funny words I could use on you too. Since you find that sort of suff amusing, I am sure you ''d. laugh but I don't sink to that level and I would appreciate it if you didn't either, it cheapens any meaningful dialogue. Unlike the others, I'm not telling you to vote on what I personally like. You never denied that Nim looks better then the rest. ALOT more skill and work went into it. Quality should rise to the top.

Oh yea, I guess I really am the insulting one...

Well, it may surprise you but despite what I just said above, I don't think graphics are all there is to a good animation. (Last month I would have loved K&K The Finale to have won I love the series) Which is why I mentioned that I was able to pick out two winners for this month. I wrote a good summery for both describing the numerous ways they were good flashes and it didn't exclusively focus on the graphics. You now tell me that, in fact, you meant to say that alot of aspects get judged when making a flash movie. Well, I KNOW THAT!!!

That said, graphics are the biggest show of skill. The better they are the more you know a person worked on it. What was it they say? 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. humour, action, drama, violence, romance, plot, dialogue, and interaction... ALL of that is the inspiration. We have no way of knowing how much thought went into it. We don't know how much effort that was but we do know if a person spent weeks drawing the look of it. That, we can be sure of.

I have very little faith anymore. Don't toss in that line about Galapagos. Galapagos would probably not have made it. That's my feeling after the recent dismissal of Nim's Tale. I have actually seen that animation and while it may have deserved a place, it would not have gotten one. I think that, fundamentally, the top 2000 users will choose other styles. Like the Madness (and it's spinoffs, I noticed that Tricky Apotheosis did rather well for what is pretty well just madness, starring Tricky) series with it's spin offs and David Phulp's creepy stories and whatever.

I don't think that is right, if it was open voting for everyone, I would agree that a higher slandered cannot be sometimes used but I just can't help but feel that the top 2000 active users in Newgrounds, who have all been here for a year and more should be capable of it. I guess can agree to disagree on that. Which is fine, we can do that. Just don't treat my thought's like they are of less worth then yours.

its weird how maxwell edison story came in tenth when it has the highest score right now

Great Tom everything is looking good for you April looks hot and she was wearing a newgrounds shirt :) Edmund got a girl all looking good for the newgrounders. Well if you didnt already ask April marry her. When Fulp does get a Newgrounds building I'll invest :). Hell yeah Newgrounds will have 1,000,000 users in about 3 years. Anyway how come Wade never comes to these things Tom? I've never seen him having fun or coming to the awards? Newgrounds rules! HURRAH!

At 6/12/05 06:14 PM, slinkyanimation wrote: I quote you with this the truth hurts and the good makes you happy but all of this stuff will make your life crappy

ppppffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttt Watch out doctor suess *coff* lolz

At 6/13/05 04:45 PM, da-wiglet wrote: its weird how maxwell edison story came in tenth when it has the highest score right now

I thought the same thing except I think it's up to Tom im not sure though good point. I liked that flash but im not sure y it's first. That song was a classic though

At 6/9/05 08:43 PM, gfoxcook wrote:

At 6/8/05 04:53 AM, DonDoli wrote: Finally a rather good list.

But why was last month the only month that you didn't post any runner-ups?

He probably forgot to. But while Tom didn't post a top 20 or 25 or 30 or whatever like he has for 3 of the 4 updates back for April's voting... he DID mention one runner-up, so "didn't post ANY runner-ups" isn't exactly accurate. See the boldfaced part down below:

Kinda late for me to reply I guess, not too many will read this but whatever, it's not like I have anything to do.
He did mention one runner-up, yes, but just that month was the only month that I had a submission in the list, and the cruel fate made Tom not post the list just that month. No need to mark words, I just wanted to know how well I did... *sob*

might b a little bit late buttuh {Email doesent work} i voted 5 4 4 of them
and i didnt watched ducktalez zo how can i vote then ^_^ srry ducktales
congratz anyway {next time ill look at everithing availeble ^_^ }

that newgrounds sim game is really fun

At 6/7/05 12:57 PM, <deleted> wrote: ng sim sux man :'(

Why?

I love NG sim.